An Open Letter to the Jehovah’s Witnesses

by / on August 13, 2016 at 7:31 am /
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Credit: Charles Taze Russell

Credit: Charles Taze Russell

Dear Jehovah’s Witnesses,

First I want to thank you – all of you for the important work that you do, sharing the Gospel with people who need to hear it; all people of all walks of life need to hear the Gospel actually. It’s a great thing to share God with others and a responsibility we all share. It takes time and dedication to do this, and a strong conviction to share knowing many will slam the door in our faces.

I recently received a letter from a Jehovah’s Witness that basically mentioned how many people are concerned with the direction the world is heading in. The cure for this direction of course is God, as God is the cure for all that ails humanity – the cause is Satan and of course our own sin.

This letter got me to thinking, thinking that I would write a letter in return to this individual. Why would I do this? Because I care, and I am familiar with the beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and these beliefs very much concern me.

That being said, members of the Jehovah’s Witnesses have unfortunately been deceived. The Jehovah’s Witnesses, (as the teaching is passed down from those with authority to set policy) teach things that are not biblical truth. Yes you believe in God the Father, but you do not believe in Jesus as being God as well. This belief is not only unbiblical, but also exceedingly dangerous. Jesus is necessary to our salvation, without Him; there IS no salvation, only believing Jesus is the Son is not enough. Jesus was never created by God, He IS God – same as the Father. Matthew 7:21-23

When reading the Bible, it is vitally important to read it as one book, one book with many different authors. God’s Word does not contradict itself as some insist. The Bible absolutely MUST be read in context; one cannot cherry-pick verses out of a chapter and point to that verse or verses as proof of their particular point. The previous chapter verses, or the following often shed light on the true meaning of what is being read. As well, knowledge of Jewish culture sheds more light on what the authors were speaking of as most biblical authors were Jewish.

Woodrow Wilcox

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Let me share a few bible verses if I may that clearly show the deity of Christ, and the necessity of believing in Christ as God, all verses from the KJV.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me
Why would God use a human or created being to be the WAY to Himself? God shares His glory with no one who is not God

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Note the use of Word in this verse, this is very important. The Word is Jesus of course, now – note the use of Word in the next verse.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
You will note how this verse is structured, in the beginning – meaning that the Word (Jesus) was always with God (eternal) and the Word was not only with God, but was and is God. Also, note how John uses the phrase in the beginning – a clear reference to Genesis 1:1.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…
The text says us not I, implying that there was more than the Father present at Creation, the Holy Spirit is mentioned, and we know through numerous verses that Christ was there during Creation.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made
This is the follow-up to the first two verses in John speaking of Jesus as having been with the Father in the very beginning. Now John tells us that ALL things were created by Jesus Christ – Since Christ created and sustains the world, there is ZERO possibility that He is not God.

John 8:19…Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Jesus is here claiming equality with God the Father, if we know Jesus, we know the Father.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
When God spoke to Moses, He gave Himself a title: I AM – that God would forever more be known by this name among many others.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
It must be noted here how Jesus claims the Old Testament name of God – I AM. The Jews clearly understood this to be a declaration by Jesus claiming to be God as they attempted to stone Him for it.

John 8:24 ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins
Note the use of I AM once again, salvation is of God – not of a man and certainly not of a created being, belief in Jesus as God is necessary to salvation.

Colossians 1:15 states that Christ is the image of God, but this in no way means that Christ is not God as Jehovah’s Witnesses teach. This verse is taken out of context. Note the wording of the following verse in Colossians:

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
In Christ dwells the Divine nature, same as His Father.

Philippians 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
Jesus being in the form of God, in other words partaking of the Divine nature – thought it acceptable to be as an equal to God, because Christ was and is both God and man.

Philippians 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
In the preceding verse we are told all within heaven and earth at the name of Jesus (the divine nature and power of Christ) will bow – here we see that all will confess Jesus as Lord – thus glorifying Jesus also glorifies God the Father. Remember – God shares his glory with no man.

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him
This verses well supports what is said in Philippians 2:10-11, namely that Jesus is God. We are to honor the Son the same as we honor the Father – again meaning that Jesus is God.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son
Here we see that the Father has given over the judgment of all things to Christ. Jesus could not possibly be the judge that all will face; be it the White Throne judgment, or the bestowing of rewards to the faithful, if He is in fact not Divine, God. For judgment belongs to none other than God.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power…
Here Jesus is again spoken of as being the image of God, and yet Jesus is also here seen to be upholding all Creation and all that is contained therein – by the word of His power, Jesus power as a Divine being, Himself being God.

Colossians 1:17, 19 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell
Again we see that ALL things were created by Christ and are maintained by His power as well. In verse 19 we are told essentially once again, that Jesus is – God, as must needs be for Him to have created Creation and to be the sustaining power of said Creation.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Our access to the Father is through Jesus Christ be we Jewish or Gentile believers.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom
It is here understood that O God refers to Christ, meaning Messiah – that the throne of Christ, (God) will last forever without end.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ
Although the word and is contained between God and Savior, from the context of the passage, God here refers to Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first
Here we see the dead being raised by Christ in the end; Jesus could only do this as God. The Apostles raised the dead as well, but only one at a time – not many thousands in the blink of an eye. John 6:40, 44 also mentions Christ raising up the dead at the last day.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

Notice that not all who do things in God’s name will be in heaven. Notice also the title of Lord along with the fact that Jesus says; Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord – once again confirming that Jesus will be the judge of humanity. For Jesus to judge, He must be divine. Most importantly – Jesus makes it clear here, if He does not know us as a person, then we will of a certainty not be in heaven with Him. For if we know Christ, we will know He is not only Savior, He is Lord and God, Creator and Sustainer, Judge and Pardoner – the beginning and the end, Alpha and the Omega, The Messiah. We will know Him and His Word, and we will seek to serve Him.

There are so many more examples from Scripture that could be used to show that Jesus is in fact God. In order to hold to the belief that Jesus is not God, one must disregard a sizable portion of the Bible, or take a large portion of the Bible completely out of context.

To disbelieve Jesus is God is to malign the Word of God and brand God a liar. The Father Himself refers to Jesus as God as shown above, so must we believe in Christ as God. In John 17:5 Jesus asks the Father to glorify Him with the glory He (Jesus) possessed with the Father before the world was. In John 20:28 Thomas called Jesus Lord and God – this cannot be explained away as being a general term in biblical times as others have attempted to do. Doing so violates the context of the passage, Thomas was referring to Jesus as being Divine, as being God – same as His Father.

Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith, or more to the point if you are a Jehovah’s Witness – to see if you are in the truth.

Believe in Jesus Christ as God and be blessed.

Republished with permission The Olive Branch Report

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Since 2014 The Olive Branch Report, the definitive Christian Magazine for today has featured the insightful writing and reporting of Christian blogger Greg Holt. His writing has been featured on American Prophet, American Clarion, Not Ashamed of the Gospel, and others. Greg is also the publisher of Inspirational Christian Blogs. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. There is no other. http://theolivebranchreport.com
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  • retiredday

    Good points! As I’ve heard many JWs say, just think about it.

    I would also add that the title, Christ comes from the Greek word for Messiah. Ezekiel, prophesying of Messiah in chapter 34, says, “I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep” in verse 15, and in verse 23, “And I will set up over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he shall feed them: he shall feed them and be their shepherd.”

    We know that this prophecy was written long after King David’s time, so “my servant David” does not refer to him, but to a descendent of his. But more telling than this, is that in the context of this passage, “I myself” and “my servant David” are one in substance and in truth: God the Father and God the Son.

  • Pesobill

    What a dreary and delusional article .. enjoy your spiritual wormwood .

    • What specifically is incorrect in the article?

      • retiredday

        I guess some people simply prefer confusion over truth. None of these comments deal with what the article actually covers. Darkness cannot overcome light. It can only avoid the light by mischaracterizing it as dreary and delusional.

      • sonofwilliam

        It contradicts several scriptures that specify the Father and the Son are not equal. Only the Son was created. Jehovah is the Alpha and the Omega. See John 14:28.

        • Yet Jesus said that he and the Father were one. Jesus said that if we had seen him, we had seen the Father. Was he a liar?

          The Scriptures also make it clear that Jesus was there at the beginning of all things, and that everything that has been created was created by him. Is the Scripture lying about that? If so, how do we know that any of the eternal claims it makes are true? And if we don’t, then the whole of Christianity is worthless.

        • retiredday

          You refer to “several scriptures”. What are they? John 14:28 doesn’t prove your argument. Jesus was speaking as a man, in human form to human disciples who had been taught that God is Spirit. Being seated at the right hand of the Father makes the Son co-equal to the Father. Recall that without him, nothing that has been made was created (John 1:3). Still more confirmation of Christ being co-equal to the Father is that the Father has given ALL authority in heaven and on earth to the Son (Mat. 28:18).

          • DB

            re: “Being seated at the right hand of the Father makes the Son co-equal to the Father.”

            I am on the right and He is on the left, so that makes us one?
            Brilliant…. One plus One equals ONE. What school did you go to?

        • Read Revelation 22

          • DB

            Great comment Greg…. 21 verses to pick from. You are so amazing. What undeniable logic…. 21 verses… Hey! To prove my point why don’t you read the entire US legal code and figure out which clauses support my position……….. Simply amazing logic….

  • VinnyT

    Jehovah’s Witnesses (JWs) predicted the end of the world, IN WRITING, numerous times. Not once did they come true. They truly are known for their ‘False Predictions’ the world over.

    JWs are taught that they alone are TRUE Christians and that all other people not JW will soon be destroyed. This is no exaggeration.

    JWs will allow their own children TO DIE rather than accept a life saving blood transfusion even in severe medical emergencies. It has already happened THOUSANDS of times!

    Just like this mother died unnecessarily! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/shropshire/7078455.stm

    And now her husband has no wife and her two new twins have no mother. And all for what?

    Or this teenager that also DIED: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_midlands/8690785.stm

    This is very simple. JW’s NEEDLESSLY die for this sorry blood policy today.

    From the same organization that has an entire 100 + year history of similar bad and embarrasing policies.

    As a 15 year active JW and zealous person for Jehovah (and an elder) here is my own story: http://exjehovahswitnessforum.yuku.com/topic/922#.USEl4aWhDHh

    JWs used to forbid Vaccinations and Organ Transplants (calling a life saving transplant “Cannibalism”) for a combined 33 years.

    JWs enforce extreme shunning for any member that decides to leave their religion or who commits a sin without showing enough repentance in front of the elders.

    Families have been devastated because of these harsh shunning policies. I have literally seen parents cut off all ties with their children solely because the kid did not want to remain a JW but went in another direction.

    Even the ex-JWs who leave the religion on their own, who are 100 percent truthful, sincere, love God, pay their taxes, help others and more are still SHUNNED by all current JW’s and marked as godless, proud, sinning apostates. And the Awake magazine recently literally called them “mentally diseased”.

    And MANY contemplate suicide because the penalties of losing everything are simply TOO MUCH TO TAKE.

    But an honest question is: Why do so many JWs leave after being one time followers?

    As I eventually found out, the JW religion did say, IN WRITING, that the end would come in 1914 and then again in 1925. Was Jehovah directing all that? 1914 and 1925 came and went! They were proven false predictions. Period.

    They also said the end very likely would happen in 1975 and even commended (in the watchtower) witnesses for selling their houses and pioneering because of it.

    But 1975 came and went!

    They also said (for many decades) that the end would come before the generation born in 1914 passed away. In fact up until 1995 it was written inside each Awake magazine cover. Only they then had to change that meaning as well (including the Awake masthead) because that generation CAME AND WENT TOO.

    I was a JW (and elder) for 15 years before leaving because of the blood and fractions policy 10 yrs ago. Today I’m shunned by all JWs simply because I left the religion.

    Most JWs simply accept everything the Watchtower teaches and says as “food from God”. Just like I did.

    Most believe God has chosen the Watchtower Society as his “channel”, which provides food from God Himself to their religion and ONLY their religion.

    But an honest look at the facts of the JW religion shows God has not chosen the Watchtower for anything!

    Take a LOOK: http://www.freeminds.org/history/part2.htm

    ALL FROM THEIR OWN LITERATURE WITH DATES & PAGES TO SEE FOR YOURSELVES!!!

    Pages and pages of mistakes, embarrassments, false predictions, medical disasters, weird science, doctrinal failures and more for over 100 years now!

    Obviously ‘GOD’ would not get things wrong like this. Obviously ‘GOD’ did not provide bad food like that for their entire history.

    But most JW’s have no idea about these things. They’re told to stay away from anything critical of their religion.

    For example: Was God’s spirit with JW’s when they said Organ Transplants were a “conscience matter” in 1961?

    OR,

    Was God”s spirit with WT when they THEN SAID Organ Transplants are same as “Cannibalism” in 1967and forbid them?

    OR, was God’s spirit with the Watchtower Society when they THEN SAID Organ Transplants are NOT the same as cannibalism in 1980 and now allow them?

    Was God behind all those changes each time? Did ((GOD)) get all those things wrong each time? How many people DIED by refusing kidney transplants for example only later on to be told they’re OK to have now?

    Which is why some end up taking their lives due to losing their family, or feel compelled to speak out about it, like me right here and now.

    And now, because I walked away, JWs are demanded to shun you for life (including your very own family).

    Which is why if I can help some honest hearted people by sharing my own story as a warning it’s truly is a worthwhile thing to do.

    Examine, examine, examine and ask as many questions as you can.

    Vinny

  • NC

    Dear Greg,

    Refer below for the basis of our beliefs in this regard (this is by no means comprehensive as the basis for not beleiving the trinity is revealed throughout the bible and cannot be limited to a mere few verses).

    Myth: God is a Trinity

    What is the origin of the myth?
    “The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Volume 14, page 299.

    “The Council of Nicaea met on May 20, 325 [C.E.]. Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, ‘of one substance with the Father.’ . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them much against their inclination.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1970), Volume 6, page 386.

    What does the Bible say?
    “Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God’s right hand. ‘Look! I can see heaven thrown open,’ he said, ‘and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God.’”—Acts 7:55, 56, The New Jerusalem Bible.

    What did this vision reveal? Filled with God’s active force, Stephen saw Jesus “standing at God’s right hand.” Clearly, then, Jesus did not become God again after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being. There is no mention of a third person next to God in this account. Despite attempts to find passages of Scripture to support the Trinity dogma, Dominican priest Marie-Émile Boismard wrote in his book À l’aube du christianisme—La naissance des dogmes (At the Dawn of Christianity—The Birth of Dogmas): “The statement that there are three persons in the one God . . . cannot be read anywhere in the New Testament.”

    The dogma that Constantine championed was intended to put an end to dissensions within the fourth-century Church. However, it actually raised another issue: Was Mary, the woman who bore Jesus, “the Mother of God”?

    Compare these Bible verses: Matthew 26:39; John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28; Colossians 1:15, 16

    https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/trinity/

    Kind regards,

    NC

    • Hi NC, let me give you a little more to consider along with others.

      This was a comment from another gentleman on my site:

      King James Bible: “And this is life eternal, that they might know
      thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

      Mr. Holt, thank you for your reply. Can you answer me who is this individual that Jesus is calling “the only true God,”?

      Here is my response:

      Hi Daniel, good question – once again the text is taken out of context.

      the only true God – this statement is not excluding Christ
      from being God Himself, rather this excludes the idols and false gods
      from being truly god, for there is only one true God – that God exists
      in three persons. Notice that in the same statement that Jesus includes
      Himself, linking Himself to the Godhead. In other words, we must know
      Christ in order to receive the gift of salvation. In 1 John 5:20 Christ
      is referred to as the true God.

      Throughout the Bible it is made clear that Jesus is the only way to the Father, and that salvation is through Christ alone.

      Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power
      on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the
      palsy,)Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. Only God can forgive sin, not a human and not a created being.

      In Ephesians 2, Jesus claims equality with God the Father.

      So is it your position then that God the Father would let these
      claims of Christ’s if they were untrue become a part of His Word?

      How do you explain the many statements in the Bible such as all those in
      my article that clearly show Jesus to be Divine, God – same as His
      Father? Why did the Father allow this in the Bible if these claims are
      false?

      What about Christ on the cross? His sacrifice paid for our sins. How
      is it possible that Christ could only be human or a created being and
      yet be good enough to pay for the sins of humanity? If only God can forgive sin, then only God can pay for it.

      In Philippians 2:10-11 we are told that ALL beings will bow at the name of Christ and that all tongues will confess Christ as Lord
      to the glory of God the Father. This is meant to include the angels –
      why would essentially everyone bow before Jesus if He is not God? Would
      God the Father allow this? I think not. And why would all confess Christ
      as Lord (another title for God) if He is not God? And why would this
      glorify the Father if Jesus is not God?

      Matthew 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to
      do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment
      us before the time? This verse implies the demons (fallen angels)
      know that Christ has the power to punish them and that they know it is
      coming in the end of things – who but God could do this?

      As I spoke of in the article, what of the fact that in the end, Jesus
      will judge, who but God could judge all of humanity? Jesus could not do
      this as a human, nor could He do it as a created being – the angels are
      created beings, and the angels will be judged by humans (1 Corinthians
      6:2-3) or we will at the least have some form of authority over them,
      therefore Jesus cannot possibly be a created being and judge humanity.

      We must read the Bible in context not taking a verse here and a verse
      there (cherry-picking) to prove a point. This kind of thing is how the
      prosperity gospel came to be among many other false and harmful
      teachings.

      May God bless you
      Greg

  • michaelgreene

    Can’t help but mention you are cherry picking too. You use scriptures you claim.prove your point, but neglect the other 1700 pages of scripture.

    Then you neglect the most famous passage of all, the Lord’s Prayer at Matthew 6:9. While you ONLY consider heaven as a destination, that prayer prays for God’s Kingdom and his will be done “on EARTH as it is in heaven.”

    Then you neglect John 17, where the first part Jesus says in prayer to God in the heavens, how “Jesus and Jehovah are ONE.” That must make you feel fine. Could it be why you did not use it is due to the entire rest of chapter 17? Jesus urges Jehovah to cause his faithful followers to be ONE with both Jehovah and Jesus? Consider how many that was in just Acts 2 who were anointed with holy spirit. 120 in the upper room. 3,000 resulting from Peters speech, understood by all in their own languages. A short time later 5,000 more. Totalling 8,120 plus Jesus and Jehovah. Isn’t that just a tad more than the three allowed by trinity teaching? They are ONE in unity if teaching.

    You will want to completely stay clear of John 20:17 where Jesus stated they should not be clinging to him, “I will be ASCENDING to.my Father in the heavens and to my God and your God.” So Jesus is saying he both split from himself, then is beside themself? Two different psychiatric disorders? Or could he be saying he has the same God he worship a as we should worship?

    I can’t help but laugh each time I read some clergy talk about cherry picking. As if to prove a point, each time we must read the entire Bible when one verse makes the point. Or is it you do.Not want anyone to get the point of a scripture but muddy the water to keep things blind?

    Regarding King David, Acts 2:34 informs that David never ascended to heaven but remains in the grave. Jehovah who never left heaven says to Jesus, who left and returned, to “Sit at my right hand until the time he receives his Kingly power.” The sentence then is not about David, who will never in in heaven. Nor about Jehovah God, who is in power as the Almighty, but about Jesus as a separate individual, whom God will appoint as King over God’s Kingdom.

    • NC

      Yeah, the trinity just makes no sense!

  • Another classic case of leading a horse to water here.

    The author presented more than enough evidence from the Bible that the Trinity exists (Father, Son and Spirit are mentioned in multiple places as deity), and that Jesus is an eternal member of that trinity.

    Jesus himself asserted his membership in the Godhead. C.S. Lewis was right to say that Jesus was either a lunatic, a liar, or really Lord. There is no doubt that he claimed to be a member of the Godhead.

    If he wasn’t, but claimed to be while knowing her was stating a falsehood, then he was a liar. No reason anyone should follow or revere a liar.

    If Jesus wasn’t God, but he thought he was God, then he was a lunatic. No reason anyone should follow or revere a lunatic.

    If Jesus said he was God, and he really was God, then he deserved to be acknowledged as our Lord and God.

    • michaelgreene

      No. Not quite correct. When used at Matthew 28:19-20, the commission from true Christians to teach, it is about teaching with ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE about each of the three. Not any TRIUNE diety.

      In fact, most time Jesus s poo peaks of his Father and himself together, holy spirit is never mentioned at all.

      Jesus was raised from the dead, back to his heavenly life and told to sit on God’s right hand until his thone and rulership is prepared.. Question: Where does holy spirit sit? In fact no where in the Bible does holy spirit get a throne, a chair, a stool, not even a cushion. In the Bible, seating is symbol of position. Holy spirit has none by itself. Instead, it is the force of God’s will, not a person.

      • Genesis 1:2 says that at the dawn of creation, “the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” If the Holy Spirit was only a force of God’s will, why did it not just say “God was hovering over the face of the waters”? It seems pretty clear (expecially with the other Scriptural evidence about the Spirit and the Trinity, it’s because the Holy Spirit is a distinct person within the Trinity.

        Just as in Genesis 1:26, God said “Let US make man in OUR image.” Who is the “US” and “OUR” here? From many other statements in Scripture about the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, it seems pretty obvious that Genesis 1:26 is talking about the Father, Son and Spirit as who the “US” is.

        Speaking of which, Matthew 28:19 speaks of the authority of the Trinity over Believers-and even names those members of the Trinity: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

        This just isn’t hard to figure out.

        • michaelgreene

          On the other hand, Gen. 1:2 never says Jehovah himself hovered over the water. Neither is Jesus mentioned. It is the spirit or force of Jehovah’s that moved.

          As for the us in let us make man…. Refers to Colossians 1:15 which shows Jesus was the firstborn of all God’s creations. The two of them are the “us”.

          As for the commission in Matthew, notice the opening of verse 20. ” Teaching them all the things…,”. Before baptism, it is necessary for them to learn as much as possible about the Father, Son and holy spirit. Neither Jehovah nor Jesus want ignorant people worshiping them. Only false religions need that.

          1Timothy 2:4 shows God’s Will is for all to be saved and come to an ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE of Truth.”. Not false or half truths as false religions depend on.

          • You’re right. Genesis 1:2 doesn’t say Jehovah hovered over the water. It also doesn’t say the Father hovered over the water, nor does it say the Father did anything at the creation. Are you now contending that the Father is not a member of the Trinity because he isn’t mentioned by name at creation?

            The Bible does, however, say here that the Holy Spirit was present at creation, and other places in the Bible state that Jesus the Son was present at creation. So we have two members of the Godhead who were undoubtedly present at creation (and I’m pretty sure one would have to be deity to be at creation at the time everything was created). Really, the only room here you have for doubting a member of the Trinity is the Father….and there are other passages in the Bible which also make it clear that the Father is eternal deity, just as it does the Son and the Spirit.

            So again, it is clear that Father, Son and Spirit are eternal members of the Godhead, otherwise known as the Trinity.

            • DB

              Bob, great reasoning. I went to to a football game with my wife and son. That means that we are a trinity….. You are incredible. Simply incredible…. and STUPID.

              • The three of you are a trinity, in that you are a threefold group.

                You are not, however, THE Trinity, the word used to describe the triune Godhead.

                Please, don’t be deliberately obtuse. I am the chief moderator here, and I’ve grown more than a little tired of the deliberate obtuseness. Consider these matters intelligently and thoughtfully, or lose your privilege of speaking here.

              • DB

                Bob, you control the mike in this situation…..
                It is your TRINITY to make up and it is your TRINITY to believe in and it your TRINITY to defend.

              • The Bible makes the reality of the Trinity very clear. Choose to believe the Bible, or choose not to believe the Bible.

            • michaelgreene

              The fact is that the trinity teaching does not exist. Millions have sucked in the gas or whatever that Satan uses to make them believe trinity is a real thing.

              It was only by Jehovah God’s divine power that creation of life was made possible. Jesus, the main name we know him as, as the first of Jehovah’s creations, as Colossians 1:15 states. “Begotten” means given life to. Jehovah have life to Jesus as his fiurst living creation. Before any angel. Before any planet or physical universe. They(Jehovah and Jesus). are the two living ones here. In writing,it is called “a simile”, when giving life like qualities to inanimate objects. Such as ” babbling brook”. Holy spirit is not a living individual. It is the all powerful force of God’s will. That is quite enough. How did God use it to create the physical universe or my favorite-suns of all shapes and sizes. Earth has only a small to medium one. The mere fdfdact of God piping them out like gumballs by holy spirit is staggering! Billions upon billions of them have been discovered in the last decade which whenever knew existed.

              We know Jehovah existed at creation, supplying the blueprint and the power. We know that Jesus existed then, as a Master Worker. Throughout the Bible, both Jesus and Jehovah had many conversations with one another as Father and Son. Oddly for clingers of trinity, there is not one conversation between either of them and holy spirit.

      • retiredday

        “holy spirit is never mentioned at all.”

        He doesn’t have to be mentioned, because God IS Spirit. Jehovah’s witnesses ignore the unity of the Godhead — ignore the fact that the Holy Spirit is God , is the Spirit of God, is the Spirit of Christ. Jesus said (John 17:21) that the Father was IN HIM and that he was IN THE FATHER. He used that to illustrate the unity he desires in his children. He want us to be IN HIM so that God is IN US.

        Refusing to accept the truth because it goes beyond the mental constraints that determine your beliefs is not true faith. Rather, you are worshipping your religion, which is an idol. And that will burn away with the rest of the wood, hay and stubble.

        • michaelgreene

          Not exactly. John 17 uses “are one” or “be one” constantly. Jesus says that he and his Father “are One.”. Then he asks his Father that his faithful followers also ” may be One'” also. As noted elsewhere e, the total comes to 8,122. That is too many. Way over the three in a trinity.

          My religion is based entirely on what the Bible teaches itself. Not whatever paganisms can be dug up by false religions. Joining with immortal soul, hellfire, all the holidays or clerhy-laity distinctions. All of these coming from pagan religions, never the Bible.

          • retiredday

            You first decided what this passage means and then read your own opinion into it. That is called eisegesis, and it conveniently skips over the linguistics of the text. “Are one” is only one aspect of that text. “You, Father in me, and I in you” is another. You are trying to reduce a Biblical concept to something subject to your own religious thinking, which is deceived.

            Far from what you say, that your religion is based entirely on what the Bible teaches, you distort God’s truth by making it mean what you want it to mean, rather than receiving God’s revealed truth. That truth is not your religion. In fact it isn’t any religion at all. It’s the faith relationship he desires to have with you, which you avoid. It is not the authority of Scripture that you lean on, but your own understanding, which is weighed down by the deceptive and unscholarly teachings of the Watchtower Society.

            • michaelgreene

              You have me confused with another writer who is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I that because you use, “Father in means I in you” which is nice but the wrong translation from what I noirmally use. Mine at John 17, uses “are One” as in joining.. Not the same body, but One in total agreement. As 1 Corinthians 1:10 rs, “To be in complete agreement, speaking as with one mind and line of thought, without divisions in you.”

              True Christians of the 1st century and today, find from the Bible whatGod teaches as Truth. Once, we adjust our thinking to Gods way of doing things. If later in, we find we were wring in some point, we adjust to be better in line with Jehovah’s thinking. Never major change, just minor. We have seen all the majoirteachungs and have those direct.

              For instance, the commission of Jesus at Matthew 28:19-20 and prophecy at Matthew 24:14, emphasised TEACHING the public. Not by any clergy class. The 1st century congregation never hgad any such division. All were ministers, even women, who taught the people OUTSIDE the congregation. That is why ALL Jehovah’s Witnesses are ministers as well. We never have a clergy class for that reason. Cults noirmally make an elevated few with special privileges-clergy. Then your laity avoids learning anything about the Bible with a quoite I have heard first hand. “That is what I pay my clergy for.”. Thus staying ignorant. Unable to follow the Bible’s direction for eternal life.

          • DB

            Daaaa. I think that other pagans believed in triune gods before people forced the concept into their “christian” religion. Same mystery, different belief structure.

            • Various pagans believe in multiple gods. If you study these religions, you find great disharmony and even war between the various gods.

              The Christian Bible teaches ONE God, made up of three distinct persons. The same Bible that teaches the various members of the Trinity were involved in creation, and created humanity in THEIR image, also teaches a people who had just come out of 400 years of Egyptian polytheism: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.” Complete and total harmony of purpose and will.

              • DB

                RE: “The Christian Bible teaches ONE God, made up of three distinct persons….” and “The Lord our God, the Lord is one.”

                Yea that sounds perfectly clear I am three and I am one….
                Hold up three fingers and you only see one. Right!

                Oh yea, regarding the comment thread that is locked….

                The Nazis would still call you a deserter and a traitor if you left and opposed them. The same for ex-JWs.

                Enough……….. bye bye…………

              • Yes, enough. Several people tried to thoughtfully present you with more than enough information to help you understand. You repeatedly chose to be obtuse instead.

              • DCM7

                More of the same shallow reaction, saying nothing that hasn’t already been addressed. To a person trying to make up their mind on the issue, your comments in context would only help lend support to the position you try to oppose.

            • michaelgreene

              In fdfdact, that is where the false religious clergies got their trinity teaching. Those liberally stole several triune god beliefs from pagans their Roman partners conquered. Romans put a big sword to their necks. Do you want to become a Christian or die now? Few chose death. This was made easier for them by coming up with a similar doctrine, like their rehashed version of trinity. Part of the reason trinity can never be explained by believers us how many different versions were mashed together, stirred and excreted into what they have today. Other than it is entirely made up and false.

        • DB

          Yea, at Pentecost, how many pieces did the holy spirit break himself up into? Some power, he can’t even keep himself together…..

          • retiredday

            Your comments illustrate perfectly why I have no respect at all for JW theology. It is saturated with distortion and ignorance. I long ago learned that since you (JWs) won’t listen to God, you won’t listen to me, and this time is no exception. Rather than giving thoughtful consideration to Bible verses, you just keep insisting you are right. The fact remains that Mr. Holt’s article is well thought out and substantiated with Biblical citations which have not been refuted.

            The truth is there for anyone who is open to receive it. The job of true believers is to be witnesses to that truth. While you claim to do exactly that, you’ve been seduced by a lie. The central issue of Christianity is the identity of Jesus Christ. The Jesus you preach is not the Jesus I know. I have said what I know to be true and Biblically sound, but you will not receive it. You’ve made your choice. I will not waste any more time bandying words. I’m done. May the LORD remove the scales from your eyes.

            • DB

              I don’t care if you respect JWs. I just want to point out stupidity and you are a perfect example.

              Again, how many pieces did the HS break himself up into?
              Big piece of cake huh?

              Theology? Scripture? Answer please…

              Go for it…………..

    • DB

      Oh yea Bobby, it plainly states the doctrine of the trinity.. … sure it does……. something so important as the nature of god is left out and only you and Constantine can figure it out. And don’t forget that he was a pagan…. and what happened to the people that did not agree with him? Real Christ like huh?

  • Marco

    I was surprise in reading in Revelation 1:1
    That Jesus received the Revelation from God and that at the end He will submit Himself to the Father 1 Cor 15:24-28
    For sure Jesus was with God during the Creation
    Colos 1:18 Rev 3:14 Prover 8:30
    Help us to understand that Jesus was created before all the other creatures
    The only verse that is trying to support Trinity is 1 John 5:7 that has been recognize as sputious verse

    • If we study what the Bible has to say about the three members of the Trinity, each has his own unique role.

      Just because the Son defers to the overall leadership of the father does not diminish the deity of the Son nor does it undermine his membership in the Godhead. One of the truly remarkable things about the Trinity is how the members defer to the roles and responsibilities of the others. (Would that human beings who try to work as a team would be so gracious.)

      Yes, the Bible makes it abundantly clear that the Son was with the rest of the Trinity from the very beginning, and that there was nothing created that has been created except for what the Son created. Jesus himself also made this clear in John 10:30, stating “I and the Father are one.” (In doing so, he was either a liar, a lunatic, or really was Lord.) Jesus is clearly part of the eternal Trinity.

      In addition to all the other verses cited here, Matthew 28:19 instructs followers of Jesus Christ to make disciples of all nations and baptize those disciplies in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Here we have all three members of the Trinity named together.

      1 John 5:7 may or may not be an erroneous insertion into the Scripture. Given that we’re talking about 2,000 years of time, with Scriptures copied from multiple languages across multiple continents during persecutions, wars, and the rise and fall of several civilizations, it is at least as possible that a piece of text might have accidentally fallen out of a line of manuscripts.

      In any case, whether the text accidentally fell out of one family of manuscripts or was accidentally inserted into another family of manuscripts, 1 John 5:7 is far from the only citation pointing to the deity of Christ or the reality of the Trinity. As the article points out, there are many other verses which illustrate not only Jesus’ deity, but the three members of the Trinity. So even if 1 John 5:7 was an erroneous inclusion (e.g. a “footnote” that, over time accidentally made its way into the main text), there is still more than enough evidence of both Jesus’ divinity and of the Trinity (and Jesus’ inclusion in it) to demand belief in them.

      The question is: will we human beings accept the clear teaching of God’s word, or will we reject the authority of the Savior of humanity?

      • DB

        Ellis, making it up as you go along?

  • Marco

    Ops spurious verse

    • retiredday

      “Ops spurious verse”?

      This pretty much sums up the clarity and understanding of JWs. What is “ops” supposed to mean, “oops”? And does Marco really think any verse of Scripture is spurious? Does he even know what spurious means? [false, not meaning what it purports to say]

      It has been my experience that JWs unreservedly stick exclusively to the Watchtower’s explanation of what Scripture means, rather than exegeting it for themselves. That is no way to discover wisdom, understanding or truth. It was for freedom that Christ has set us free. That includes being free from the dogma of false doctrines.

  • HOMIE

    I have to say as a JW im not a active one but my beliefs are firm and yes I was raised by devoted parents. I am much older now and my father has passed away. There are a lot of interesting posts with alot of good points on both sides of the coin.. But there is a question in my head thats still ways tough on the view of the trinity.
    We all know that GOD or as some believe JESUS was god has created all things. This point we all can agree upon.
    He created everything. Now then we all know that Jesus was tempted several times by the devil. Why would the devil who was created by GOD even attempt to offer him all the kingdoms of the world when he knows that GOD created them in the first place. How do we reason the reply that JESUS made to the devil that day when Jesus was offered everything and have all the kingdoms given to him if he worshipped the devil.
    Did not Satan ask him is he was the son of god to command the angels to protect. Now we go back and fourth with the interpretation of these scriptures but it is indeed thought provoking. One last interesting point when Jesus was put to death why did he look up to his heavenly father and say forgive them father for they no not what they do.
    Anyway good points and very interesting comments. Peace to everyone.. THANKS

    • Those are thoughtful questions. Here’s what I think.

      Satan isn’t known for being the brightest bulb in the pack. Oh yes, he’s extremely clever. But he’s also extremely arrogant and full of pride. That pride and arrogance leads him to do some things that are, in the long run, pretty obtuse.

      The Bible teaches that human beings are a fallen race, and we live in bodies of flesh that have a nature inclined toward sin-something we inherited from our father Adam. Jesus, the Son of God, lived inside one of those fallen bodies. I suspect Satan thought that just maybe, that sin nature would be enough to tip the man Jesus toward his enticements (after all, every other human being tips easily enough).

      I also suspect that no small measure of his arrogance led him to believe in that possibility.

      After all, the created being Satan believed he could overpower Almighty God, which is why he rebelled against God in the first place. A being so blinded by his arrogance could allow himself to believe almost anything-perhaps even that he was capable of persuading a member of the Godhead to join him.

      As to your last question, that’s a thoughtful one also. I suspect Jesus asked the Father to forgive them at least in part because of his love for us-for all sinners. It was also an incredible illustration of what he had taught us to do-love those who persecute us. And consider this: in human terms, what would gin up more wrath from a king than the wrath toward people who had killed the king’s son? In overarching terms, the sacrifice had to be made (it was what purchased the pardon for all us sinful human beings), but it was a terrible offense to strike out against the King’s son-indeed, to strike out against the member of the Godhead who had created all people in the first place. Even if we assume God did forgive the executioners for this act, remember that there were still more than enough sins in their lives that they needed the pardon that only Christ’s act of sacrifice could purchase.

      I hope that’s helpful to you.

      • DB

        Opps, “tip the man Jesus,” I thought that he was god or god-man… how come the bible doesn’t say god-man? How come it only talks about a man? Oh yea, it’s a mystery.. and we are all supposed to believe you… And that’s a mystery too.

        Give me a break.

        • The Bible doesn’t say a lot of things in specific terms. Yet the Bible says a lot of things that human beings (to whom God gave intellect and the capacity to reason) and understand through study.

          Of course, pride and hard hearts often interferes with our ability to do that.

    • retiredday

      Quoting Bob’s response to you, “Jesus, the Son of God, lived inside one of those fallen bodies.” This is a primary point of Biblical theology. The Messiah was both God and Man — a mystery that can be confounding, but the very reason he can relate to us and we can relate to him. It is incumbent on us when reading Scripture to understand that it reveals both his humanity and his divinity.

      • DB

        Yes, a mystery… just believe because I said so…..

        Imagine Satan trying to tempt his own creator? Pretty stupid huh?

        Imagine the devil saying,
        “Jesus, my own creator, fall down and worship me and I’ll give you dominion over all the governments in the world… forget that you made it all, me included, just worship me and I’ll give you the tiniest part of this vast universe. I know that that will be irresistible to you my creator.”

        NOT.

        Makes perfect sense to no one.

        • It was pretty stupid of the creation to think he could successfully overthrow his Creator, yet Satan did, and made the attempt.

          A being that arrogant could easily be haughty enough to think he could tempt his own Creator. If you could successfully rebel against your creator, why not believe you could successfully tempt your creator?

          Pretty stupid to exclude that very real possibility, huh?

    • If Satan could have succeeded in getting Jesus to accept his offer of all the kingdoms of earth (never a possibility) in return for Jesus worshiping him, then there would have been no crucifixion and therefore no forgiveness of sin. Satan is as Bob said - arrogant and prideful. There is also the fact that through this we can plainly see that our mediator (Christ) was tempted just as we are only more so, therefore Jesus understands what we are going through.

  • DB

    Oh God, another another stupid Trinity argument. How dumb can you people be.
    Jesus prayed to himself. Jesus asked himself that he not be executed like he did on the last night of his human life, Jesus said that he came to do the will of himself, when talking to the devil and facing temptation from the devil to disobey himself, Jesus said that people should live by his Father’s word.Oh, excuse me, he was talking about himself……… Are you all dumb or what?

    I talk to myself, but I don’t pray to me for permission…….. Do you?
    I don’t call me my father. …. Do you?

    Are you all dumb or what?

    • NC

      The trinity is just plain old illogical! Satan surely loves portraying Jehovah as a trinity as it makes him a mystery and obscures who he is.

      • DCM7

        Interesting logic. It reminds me of people trying to make up reasons why opposing “gay marriage” or evolutionism would supposedly be “un-Christian.”

  • Must every member of the Trinity be mentioned each time any member of the Trinity or the Trinity itself is mentioned, in order for there to be three members of the Trinity? Must every member of the presidential cabinet be mentioned by name each time one or more members of the cabinet is mentioned, in order for those members to actually exist as cabinet members?

    Also, hopefully you have noticed that references to the Father are synonymous with references to God. That’s not surprising since the Father IS God, i.e. a member of the Trinity…just as is Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

    Come on. Given the wealth of Scriptural references provided here, this shouldn’t be hard at all (unless someone is invested in NOT believing the evidence).

    • DB

      Wealth of scripture……………………. Where does it plainly explain in simple direct terms about a triune god? Come on NO WHERE. NO WHERE, and NO WHERE.
      You must twist, bend and distort to get to you explanation. That is why some stupid dishonest person had to insert 1 John 5:7. He did not have any proof either and neither do you.

      • As DCM7 stated in a recent comment, the word “Trinity” appears nowhere in the Bible, and is indeed difficult for singular and finite beings to comprehend.

        But there are also many concepts found in the Bible that are not discussed using the term by which they are known today. Rather, they are revealed by study and exegesis. The term is unimportant; the reality behind the term is.

        We also do not understand everything about many things (e.g. gravity) in the universe around us. But we can understand enough about them to accept their reality. An all-powerful eternal being (who created the universe in which we live, and everything in it) is undoubtedly even more difficult to understand than is his creation. The fact that we are able to understand as much as we are about such a being is remarkable.

        Again, from the multiple scriptures cited here, the conclusion is beyond any doubt that (a) God is triune, and (b) Jesus is a divine member of it.

    • Daniel7

      Trinitarians claim Jesus is asserting a Trinity with that scripture, so if that were the case all three should be there. Yes, The Father is synonymous with God, Show me a scripture that says “God The Son” or “God The Holy Spirit” or even “Trinity”. They don’t exist. And yet Christendom will have you believe that something that isn’t in The Bible is its most important teaching.

      • Again…Must every member of the Trinity be mentioned each time any member of the Trinity or the Trinity itself is mentioned, in order for there to be three members of the Trinity? Must every member of the presidential cabinet be mentioned by name each time one or more members of the cabinet is mentioned, in order for those members to actually exist as cabinet members?

        Just because Genesis 1:2 mentions the Spirit only, does that mean the Father and the Son don’t exist? Just because other passages mention the Father only, does that mean the Spirit and Son don’t exist? Just because some passages mention the Son only, does that mean the Father and the Spirit don’t exist?

        A little bit of logic and reason goes a long way, if employed.

        In Matthew 28:19-20, the Son said, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.”

        Why would the Son include himself in the authority for making and baptizing disciples if he were not equal in authority with the Father and Spirit? It wouldn’t make any sense if he were not on the same level as them. Indeed, since the Son was present at creation as the Bible says, and since nothing was created that was not created by the Son, as the Bible says, it is very clear that Jesus the Son is divine like the other members of the Trinity.

        And once again, for the Nth time, Jesus the Son made it clear that he and the Father are one, and that when we have seen him, we have seen the Father.

        It is clear to any rational person that Father, Son and Spirit make up the Godhead, otherwise known as the Trinity.

        Again, this isn’t hard to figure out…unless one is invested in avoiding the very clear lessons of Scripture.

      • Thisoldspouse

        The apostle Thomas hailed Jesus as “my lord and my God.” (John 20:28) Was he speaking blasphemy? Jesus certainly didn’t correct or repudiate his exclamation.

        • Another good point, Spouse.

          • DCM7

            Indeed. That verse *alone* pretty much trashes all the JW arguments here.

        • NC

          There is no objection to referring to Jesus as “God,” if this is what Thomas had in mind. Such would be in harmony with Jesus’ own quotation from the Psalms in which powerful men, judges, were addressed as “gods.” (John 10:34, 35, RS; Ps. 82:1-6).

          Isaiah 9:6 (RS) also prophetically describes Jesus as “Mighty God,” but not as the Almighty God. All of this is in harmony with Jesus’ being described as “a god,” or “divine,” at John 1:1 (NW, AT).

          • DCM7

            At this point the rationalizing is getting even more transparent than ever. Whereas some Bible points need some explanation to put them in context, you’re simply playing the game of “the Bible isn’t actually saying what it says, because this.”

        • Daniel7

          We don’t have a problem with Jesus being call “a god” because the scriptures do.

          Isaiah 9:6 For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,. . .(Footnote Or, “Mighty Divine One.” Heb., ´El Gibbohr´ (not ´El Shaddai´ as in Ge.
          17:1); Sy, “Mighty God of times indefinite”; Lat., Deus fortis.)

          Also John 1:1

          **Goodspeed’s An American Translation, 1939, “the Word was divine”
          **Revised Version-Improved and Corrected, “the word was a god.”

  • Jringe01

    Matthew 7:21-23 doesn’t prove Jesus is God…he specifically mentions “his father” as being in heaven…and he’s on earth as he says it. If Jesus was God then why say “only the one who does the will of my Father” instead of “only the one who does my will”. If Jesus is God then that means he’s in two places at the exact same time…an impossibility. John 14:6 doesn’t prove it either…No one can walk up to any western ruler, they have to go through someone first, like a Chief Of Staff. My reading of that verse would seem to suggest that is how Jesus is, in effect, describing his role. Besides, don’t the JW’s believe that Christ was made a perfect human to balance out Adam’s sin, to prove that a perfect human can remain loyal to God? If that’s the case then this verse makes perfect sense and doesn’t prove Jesus is God. One final thought…1 Kings 8:27, Isaiah 66:1, Acts 17:24. God cannot be contained by human structures…thus Jesus cannot be God because he WAS conitained within many structures during the course of his time on earth. To suggest that God can make himself less than what he is so that he can fit in a house is to diminish him. Also, if Jesus is God then how many people died looking upon his face? - Exodus 33:20

    • You should recall that the Godhead, the Trinity, is made up of three distinct persons. Jesus talks of the Father because the Father is one of those three distinct persons, just as he is. And since the three members of the Trinity work in complete harmony, when someone does the will of the Father, that someone is also doing the will of the Son, and the will of the Holy Spirit.

      It isn’t impossible for any member of the Trinity to be in two places at the same time. True, I doubt that the man Jesus’ body was in two places at the same time during the 33 years he lived as a man on earth, but his divine spirit that inhabited that body may very well have been able to be in more than one place at a time. In any case, such a consideration does not diminish the reality of Jesus’ divinity nor the reality of the Trinity.

  • DCM7

    The doctrine of the Trinity is admittedly a bit hard for humans to wrap their brains around because it doesn’t really correspond with much of anything in our earthly experience. Someone has said the Trinity is like ice, liquid water and water vapor — three different forms of the same thing. That may not be a perfect explanation but I think it points in the right direction.

    At any rate, all the anti-Trinity arguments here use the same tactics used by atheists and God-haters: fallacies (especially straw-man distortions & false analogies), mockery, name-calling, questions that miss the point, statements that don’t prove what they’re supposed to, etc. And the arguments here attack what happens to be one of satan’s favorite targets of attack: the deity of Christ. Coincidence? I think not.

  • generalstratos

    Sorry, but the trinity “doctrine” just doesn’t hold up. It becomes a circular theory that doesn’t make sense and seems to require any thinking person to put faith in a person who says it is biblical since there is no biblical proof for it. In fact, this article contradicts itself from beginning to end. The JW explanation makes a lot more sense to me. You have Jehovah the Almighty God, his son Jesus the firstborn of all creation and savior of mankind, and the holy spirit or Almighty God’s active force that he uses to accomplish his will. Why can’t I believe in all three distinct entities as they are explained in the scriptures?

    • DCM7

      You’re just basically making similar mistakes as other commenters. In your case you’re claiming the Bible doesn’t say things that it does, and ignoring those things when considering other things it does say. As much as you seemingly want to appear otherwise, you’re clearly starting with a conclusion and pretending the things that challenge it don’t exist. That is never the tactic of someone who really wants to understand God’s word.

      • generalstratos

        As is typical, you have assumed something about me, a person whom you do not know because you have an agenda of your own. Let’s just agree to disagree and I won’t attempt to pass judgement about your eternal salvation.

        • DCM7

          I don’t see where I assumed anything, only observed. And my only “agenda” is to try to point out clear truth where I see others denying it.

          • generalstratos

            If you think the trinity doctrine is “the truth” then your truth is clear as mud.

            • DCM7

              I have had many reasons over the years to distrust JW doctrines. The fallacies, name-calling, etc., from the JW camp here do nothing to change that (and, in fact, do a fair amount to reinforce it).

              • generalstratos

                So your issue is more about the JWs than Bible truth. Hope that works out for you.

              • DCM7

                The issue is that I learned long ago that I can’t expect to get Bible truth from JWs.

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